NN - EP11 - Inside 3D Laser Scans, VR, And The Courts

Originally released May 2020

We trace how 3D laser scanning, 360 imaging, and consumer VR shape crime scene documentation, training, and what persuades a jury. Guests from forensics and law enforcement share wins, limits, and practical ways agencies bring immersive tech into the courtroom.

• early QTVR panoramas versus measurable laser scans
• selecting scanners and building agency buy‑in
• integrating video, photos, and point clouds
• juries exploring scenes with self‑contained viewers
• crash reconstruction and vehicle alignment workflows
• 360 video’s training value and evidential limits
• lidar in consumer devices and rapid capture tools
• standardizing exhibits for longevity and access
• AR, on‑sensor AI, and future courtroom impact
• community knowledge between researchers and field units

541-314-4271 — 3 minutes or less: What do you see as the challenges and where is this going?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Topic Setup
• 1:24 Interview: George Reis On 3D Imaging
• 7:18 From QTVR To Modern Scanning
• 11:49 AR, Sports Tech, And On‑Sensor AI
• 16:45 VR For Training And Courtroom Use
• 19:14 Interview: Detective MT Brown
• 24:02 Selecting And Deploying Scanners
• 29:59 Courtroom Adoption And Crash Reconstruction
• 33:44 Lidar In Phones And Photogrammetry
• 38:12 Listener Call‑In Prompt
• 38:43 Interview: Crime Scene Tech Nicole
• 43:10 360 Cameras’ Limits And Low Light
• 47:20 Standardizing How We View Evidence
• 51:18 Pivot To Nonsense With M3
• 51:50 Comedy Ad Break: Assmaster 400XL
• 54:12 Guitars, Sports, And Excellence
• 1:02:42 Media Narratives And Leadership
• 1:08:39 Tech, Privacy, And COVID Apps
• 1:16:43 Family, Caregiving, And Daily Life
• 1:19:58 Closing, CTA, And Patron Updates

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Nerds and Nonsense was recorded to hard drive in front of a previously recorded studio audience. Welcome to the show, everybody. Larry Thompson, your host for Nerds and Nonsense. Our 11th episode, and we have plenty of nerds and nonsense for you in this episode. This month's What's Your Opinion topic was 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies in the criminal justice system. So I've been doing a ton of research, of course, as I do, and revisiting the topic as I do occasionally to delve in, see where things are at, get a feel for how things are being used today. I've used a number of these technologies throughout my career, including 3D laser scanning, but just find them so fascinating and was wondering, you know, where some of my friends and peers are at. So I've reached out to some of them and we'll share some of those interviews in this episode, as well as, of course, plenty of nonsense. So I'll be uh connecting with M3 later in the episode for some of that. So stay tuned. Let's kick it off with an interview with George Reese, a longtime peer friend, instructor, well-respected colleague in the field. George Reese is president and owner of Imaging Forensics.com. Here's my interview with George. So, um, yeah, so I've just been uh, as I briefly mentioned, uh, you know, personally d delving into this VR stuff. I thought a a good might be a good, you know, use of time to spend with the family exploring some stuff that I'm fascinated with while we're all stuck at home here. And and so I had finally pulled the trigger on on gr getting an Oculus Quest, which is uh, you know, Oculus is one of Oculus's uh VR devices. It's the standalone ones completely wireless. And oh boy, it's been so much fun for the family. I mean, just sharing experiences, traveling, going places, you know. Uh-huh, sure. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, and so you know, that uh of course led to my re-interest, re-fascination with, you know, how all of these technologies are fitting together, uh uh, you know, both for consumer applications and of course uh what we do most regularly, which is, you know, aiding uh, you know, the criminal justice system and the courts um uh with processing, you know, digital evidence and that sort of thing. And oh boy, man, so much has changed. So much has changed. The one of the first names, of course, that I thought of and always think of when I think about cameras, photography, is you. I just learned so much from you doing this, just sitting in chat.

SPEAKER_01: 3:21

You're very you're very kind, Larry, and I appreciate that. And you know, it's interesting. Uh you know, your initial statement is wow, it's amazing, so much has changed. And to some extent, I'm shocked that we aren't taking more advantage of the technology. So I I think about the first time I learned about any level of 3D imaging from the standpoint of QuickTime virtual reality. And I I think that was in the early 1990s. I was at an Apple conference. Apple actually used to have their own conferences back then, and QTVR was huge. Everywhere I went, it was QTVR, and I'm there trying to find things that I could bring back to Newport Beach Police, where I was working at the time, that I could utilize. And I thought, what's all this QTVR stuff? That's not of interest to me, but I couldn't escape it. And so I went to a to a session and somebody who showed panoramas of Main Street USA, and it was just like a small town and panoramas from different perspectives, and all of a sudden it popped into my head. Imagine doing witness perspective photography using 360-degree views, because when we when we look at something, we we actually human beings are able to turn our bodies and our heads in different directions. Which which I I think seems all obviously quite obvious, but uh Sometimes I guess when we take pictures, we take this narrow narrow angle. And so we're not really seeing all of what they can see. So it turned out something I brought back to the department. So we're talking about what is that thirty thirty years ago or something?

SPEAKER_04: 5:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:13

Pretty close to. And and yet within the forensics community, we do see a lot of 3D modeling that's come about from people using various laser scanners and creating 3D models of crime scenes, traffic collisions. We see the integration of video evidence with that. And that's an area that that really has developed within this. But in the old areas of doing QuickTime virtual reality panoramas and object VRs, not not quite as much.

SPEAKER_04: 5:47

Yeah, you know, it's interesting that you say that. It's a great point. Because just this morning I had the same feeling about Microsoft's HoloLens. Uh, did you ever run across that? There see their HoloLens devices. So they have the$3,500 HoloLens 2, which is I think they did a fabulous job with it. But essentially, it's augmented reality, you know. Okay stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 6:14

I I'm not familiar with their with their HoloLens, so that's something I need to look into.

SPEAKER_04: 6:20

Yeah, it's you know, they uh Microsoft Research, you know how they do some really, really slick stuff that'll never make it to market because it's just so expensive to do.

SPEAKER_01: 6:29

Yes. Well, and that's that's what happens. Things become costly. So the thing I think of, I don't mean to interrupt you because I want you to continue, is the technology they developed for sporting events where with the instant replays you stop at a particular point and determine whether or not the player's foot was out of balance, for instance, and these 36 cameras and freeze that frame and then just I I'm assuming clip their mouse and rotate the view, and it's it's like an object VR, but it's done in a very sophisticated manner.

SPEAKER_04: 7:03

It is, and in fact, to that point, it's it's there have been a lot of advancements uh as to where the processing done is done, and Sony just released this week? Or maybe did they release it? But it's a new chip. They've developed hybrid chip that uh is essentially an image sensor with uh an AI processing uh system built right into uh the sensor.

unknown: 7:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 7:30

Integrated in a way that is supposed to be, you know, unique, uh not been done before type of thing. And I was just reading this story the other day on TechCrunch about it, and of course, my head's just going bing bang boom. Oh my gosh, if these sensors end up and everything, can you imagine? You know, uh augmented reality sort of stuff, the AI sort of stuff that we can do. It fascinates me that on a you know my smartphone I can sit and edit 360-degree video. That just makes it blows my mind, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 8:06

Yes, it's it's unbelievable. Technology, we're we're fortunate to live in this in this world of of great technology.

SPEAKER_07: 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:13

For me, now that I'm I'm getting old, uh it's hard to keep up. But uh certainly is an exciting time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 8:22

And and I know, so you were back then with the with the QTVR, which I don't even remember the QTVR, and I was pretty geeky then. Certainly, QuickTime came out in 91.

SPEAKER_01: 8:35

But you know, you said QTVR was was just right after that within a couple of years. And you know, we had two technologies to use one as creating panoramas, so you see the 360-degree view going outside of wherever you're standing, and then the objects, which is the 360-degree view of the object itself. And one of the first innovators of that was actually the Queensland Police Service down in Australia, and Adrian Freeman from their agency came to the US to try to find out what we were doing up here, and they were just just uh uh way, way ahead of what we were doing, and they were creating panorama tour scenes. Uh they had uh Adrian showed me one of a uh jail breakout. And what they did is on the whole path that they believed that the suspects traveled, they put their cameras and were doing 360-degree views and they created a map and with the hotspots on the map, and you can click and see the path that the guy went and what he saw as he went during the course of the breakout. It's fascinating. And and this is you know, early or mid-1990s.

SPEAKER_04: 9:44

That's crazy. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:47

Wow. Well, I did do uh yeah, I'm sorry, but after we chatted the other day, remember we were talking about well, what was the earliest use uh of 3D laser scanning? I did find a reference to a 1998 case. Oh, really? Okay, interestingly enough. Sorry to interrupt that.

SPEAKER_01: 10:05

No, no, there's no problem. And and you know, of course, one of the things is with the QTVR aspects, it's very difficult to use that for photogrammet photogrammetry. Whereas with laser scanning, that's a primary purpose of it. So it's understandable that the laser scanning technology for building point clouds and doing 3D imaging that way developed the way that it did. And you you could, your camera scan, who made a 360-degree camera, which is a really nice one, had a photogrammetry module that you could put a software module, and you would just take your 360-degree shots at two different heights on your tripod, and everything was already calibrated and built in. You'd throw a measurement device into the scene and click a couple of buttons and you'd get your measurements. But it still didn't offer a lot of the things that people wanted within the laser scanning. So it fell away and panel scan is still around, but now they're making scanners. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:11

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jeepers, I mean, Apple is everybody seems to be picking back up. And virtual reality is one thing. I love virtual reality technology and 360 video technologies. You know, certainly from a demonstrative presentation, uh, I don't see 360 video really having uh much evidentiary value, you know, as far as collecting evidence. But I do see a tremendous amount of value there in training. And I know there's a couple agencies actually that I can't remember off the top of my head that have developed, I shouldn't say agencies, uh companies that have developed uh VR experiences uh for first responder training that are designed to, you know, immerse them in the experience such that they they really get scared. They really get, you know. Which I don't know if you've been in VR lately, but I put that Oculus, I was really scared in a few situations pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01: 12:10

Yeah. I I haven't looked at any of the new technology. I I think maybe eight or ten years ago I went to a SIGGRAF conference and I I was quite amazed then. So I I can't imagine what it's like right now. Yeah, it's gotta be it's gotta be great. Right.

SPEAKER_04: 12:25

You know, the challenge there, I I said I see that stuff being you know more training related, but to get back like like you were talking about with the panorama stuff, where we have demonstratives where you can click on and see and experience firsthand in full 360 view right within a 3D laser scan demonstrative, you know, which we're we're we're we're you know doing today. It's just it blows my mind. Stacy and I just were touring the other day. We we the other night we were like, hey, let's go on Oculus and do some travel. So we went on, you know, and Wow and went to a Paris and uh did some touring around sites in Paris and you know, went to uh Notre Dame and a few other places, and it blows me away that we're right there.

SPEAKER_01: 13:14

And you did not suffer jet lag on that trip, did you?

SPEAKER_05: 13:17

That's exactly right for two weeks after.

SPEAKER_01: 13:23

You know, I I yeah, that's that's absolutely wild. Uh I I need to I need to give that a try. That sounds like a black.

SPEAKER_04: 13:29

Well, you know, the the thing that I'm finding, just my personal experience on the on that consumer side of it, is that you know, the headsets, even the the Oculus Go, which is the the mobile one, it's really designed for you know just using it while you're sitting or standing, but not really moving. You know, it's only one controller. But you get the full 360 immersion. Those things are light, but they still, after you know, half hour, hour, depending on your fit and et cetera, you know, they start weighing on you. Which is why I was so excited about Magic Leap's concepts that they were, you know, doing with virtual reality and augmented reality. I don't know if you followed Magic Leap's horrible story over the last ten years, but I know I haven't. I've got a million. My gosh, they they must have received, you know, a billion in funding over the last ten years. All the big names were in this and and it still uh exist, but that now the product has gone to only selling you know to enterprises, corporate installations, and they never really delivered, you know, the experience that they promised ten years ago or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01: 14:39

Well, that that almost seems to be a a new business model that though, doesn't it? You you create a contract, you get a bunch of funding, and then you never come out with a profitable um product at the end, and yet you issue an IPO and it sells for billions and billions of dollars for some reason.

SPEAKER_05: 14:58

Aaron Powell Yeah, and you run away as best as you can.

SPEAKER_04: 15:03

Buy a sports team and start uh thinking about politics and stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 15:07

There we go.

SPEAKER_04: 15:08

Uh yeah. No, it is. I mean, but that's the challenge. I think that you know, a lot of us because we're so eager, I I say us meaning just people that love technology or you know, involved in technology, we get so excited about the possibilities that we often, you know, I don't want to say overpromise, because we don't promise you know, develop, but we uh often over-project, you know, like back in the 70s thinking, you know, we would probably be flying cars around everywhere today. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:39

Yeah, that well, well, you're absolutely right about that. But on the other hand, you you think the old science fiction movies where we were looking at objects floating in the air, uh you know, computer screens floating in the air, and to some extent the augmented reality is that, isn't it? So some of these are coming to pass, which is which is fun.

SPEAKER_04: 16:00

That was part of my chat with George Reese from Imaging Forensics.com regarding 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies. The complete chat with George, which is about another 20-some minutes, will be released later this week to our patrons along with uh a few other interviews, including this next one. I I don't like to, you know, interviews is kind of a strong word because I really don't prepare questions for the guest. Uh in fact, I rarely go after a guest. Uh I just reach out to friends and see if they have anything to say. So, but here's another Detective Michael Brown. MT Brown. MT has 30 years in his 30th year of law enforcement experience this year, uh, which just blows me away because the guy is full of energy, always smiling, always bringing, you know, laughter to the group. Master's degree in criminal justice and law enforcement administration, BA in sociology, incredibly experienced instructor and law enforcement officer, part of my chat with MT Brown. How the hell are you?

SPEAKER_03: 17:13

What have you been on to uh as good can be during this COVID mess.

SPEAKER_04: 17:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 17:19

Working from home today, theoretically. We got us on split shifts or whatever, so right still working.

SPEAKER_04: 17:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 17:25

I see your posts from time to time, and a lot of times you post something, I'll go research it. So I enjoy your post quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04: 17:32

Oh, thanks. Hey, what do you is this your 30th year anniversary coming up for the I am in my 30th year.

SPEAKER_03: 17:40

So when I reach January 2021, that will complete 30 and start 31.

SPEAKER_04: 17:48

Wow. Wow, that is crazy. Congratulations, man. That's so awesome.

SPEAKER_03: 17:54

Well, thanks.

SPEAKER_04: 17:55

Yeah. So trying to hang in there. What what's the plans? Any plans for the future as as far as retirement?

SPEAKER_03: 18:03

Or well, I've got you know, Logan and Hayden. My son is at KU in aerospace engineering, so he's got two more years, and my daughter is actually at Harvard Law. Wow. She's got two more years. So in 2022 is probably when I meet to make a decision one way or the other what I'm gonna do. I'm still having fun. I still enjoy, I'm in a position where I can recover video, do some work on video, and I can also pursue leads from it, which is I enjoy that still.

SPEAKER_04: 18:35

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's the same with me. I mean, I've always said, you know, I don't think I'll ever retire, retire, right? We always gotta stay busy, have a purpose, that sort of thing. But I find myself like, you know, just enjoying the technology so much and being able to solve problems and well, like I said, that's why I watch your guys' posts and several others, because I really I see you guys get into it.

SPEAKER_03: 19:00

I am at the grunt level, like recovering, and then we pursue leads and do interviews and whatnot, but I see your guys' resource into it, and little tidbits will make a huge impact for us when we when I see something that that you or some of the other uh people who are leaders in the field that figure something out, I'm like, yeah, that's a that's a good idea, and then I'll go incorporate it into my little world.

SPEAKER_04: 19:23

Well, you know what's always been I've always found interesting about both yourself and your brother are very you know modest, but but you really are cutting edge. You guys do a lot of delving into you know what's what's coming down the pike. And uh, you know, for our Kansas agency, that was kind of surprising for me, you know, when I first met you guys. And it's been it's been an interesting career for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 19:48

I learned a lot of times you guys figured out something and we'll put boots on the ground and implement it from your guys' research a lot of times, because we're at the we are at the level where we can actually implement. Quite a bit, but we don't have time to research quite a bit like you guys do. And you guys are the what we Dean and I consider the leaders, and we just kind of implement the things you figure out.

SPEAKER_04: 20:10

I you know it's interesting that you say that because I've found that I really love the research part. I love being, you know, the generalist who has touched so many things, you know, and like knows a little bit about everything, just enough to be able to say, hey, here's a bigger picture. That's kind of I see as as my value.

SPEAKER_03: 20:29

But extremely valuable guys that are that that's where we see it.

SPEAKER_04: 20:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 20:34

Oh, that's so cool. And we put it to use, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:36

That's so cool. Are you guys uh so uh how how are you guys using 3D laser scanning today or LIDAR or any of those relationships?

SPEAKER_03: 20:44

We use uh a ferro scanner, like I told you in my text to you, is that the first time I had actually ever seen a ferro scanner was with you and Andrew and Grant displaying it to us and never even thought about it. So for the next couple years, we went into a research mode and I went to several I went to Washington, I think it was in Virginia, and they the government sponsored a expose on all the current technologies and used like Farrow and then some of the others that were more photography based than laser-based. And we got to see quite a few of them, and then we got to test quite a few of them, and then we that went on for about three years, and then we finally submitted a proposal and actually got one in 2017. We got a Faro 360 that we that we use here for both vehicle accident investigations, crime scene investigations, and Dean and I are the only ones that kind of use it a little bit for the video investigations.

SPEAKER_04: 21:49

Right. Well, you know, it was it the NIJ's forensic technology center of excellence project thing that you were. It could have been.

SPEAKER_03: 21:57

I think it was put on by NIJ, and it was they had a lot of folks come in that that showed their technology off, and there were very some I think used uh photogrammetry uh for their measurement as put as opposed to lasers, and then there was others that were just 3D. They just took video or images.

SPEAKER_04: 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:18

And then there were two that I recall that was Leica and Faro that did the actual laser measuring.

SPEAKER_04: 22:23

Yeah, yeah. So I was just looking at that study that it came out in 2016 and was updated in 2018, and it's a really it's a really valuable uh document for agencies just especially for agencies just getting started in this area uh of 3D laser scanning. It has, you know, both hardware considerations, case studies, uh short case studies from various agencies. I I think most of them were like in 2014, 15, you know, that sort of thing. And and then, you know, some of the common issues and concerns to take into consideration when adopting 3D, you know, laser scanning stuff. The thing that I saw most recently, and it's like a year old, but Fairfax County, Virginia, started. Uh have you heard of Snapshot or uh 3D Hawk? I have not. So this is like essentially an Israeli company worked with uh DHS and the Science Technology Directorate to develop and and work on uh implementing testing this new technology that essentially is a high definition, a standard high definition camera you know, from that uses a cell phone for display. It's you know no bigger, yeah, no bigger than a cordless phone, you know, in your hand. But it's essentially stitching all of the video together to create the models using just that high definition camera, uh as well as of course LIDAR, I'm assuming, somehow in the device. But I was just reading about that and I'm like, that's that's the sort of thing that you know that the technology advancements. Ten years ago, yes, when this stuff first started hitting, you know, to be honest with you, Grant was the first that I had seen the technology, but but Grant was the first one, of course, that that introduced it to me in regards to video evidence, and that was an eye-opening experience. But I think you know, so so far ahead of the curve that a lot of people, you know, were very, very cautious at that time. And there weren't a lot of options. Plus, there were a lot of obstacles, right?

SPEAKER_03: 24:42

There are. Yeah. There were there were, in fact, I think it was when I first saw it, you guys had displayed it to Dean and I, and it I think it was five or six years later that we I had begun we had begun looking at it, but it wasn't until five or six years later that we actually, like I said, 2000. I think 2016 we introduced the special, and I know we had it up and going in 2017. So a lot of those issues I think you guys ironed out, and we benefited from it. We've not used it, we've used it in several a lot of cases and a lot of homicide cases. Yeah. But but we haven't really and we've used it in connection with video, but we haven't actually used it where we implement and we overlay video. That's a project I have going on now with another jurisdiction for a hyphen access.

SPEAKER_04: 25:30

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many things that after the fact, you know, which is really, you know, evidence collection and processing, you know, get as much as we have scope and authority to get, and then, you know, process in a controlled environment and controlled manner. That's what fascinates me about some of the advancements in the last several years with this 3D laser scanning. I mean, look at I mean LIDARs in mobile devices, you know, cell phones and and and tablets.

SPEAKER_03: 26:01

Yes. I saw Apple has some kind of, but I thought Ed was using something with with a product from Apple that they use their phone to do it's a quite a bit cheaper alternative to taking um measurements at scenes and things like that.

SPEAKER_04: 26:16

Yeah, I was looking for there was a I reached out to Ed, sent him a message real quick. I can't remember the camera he was using. That's what I was trying to because I know he was using uh photo modeler.

SPEAKER_03: 26:26

Yeah, something I remember he was using I I just remember it was an I thought it was something to do with Apple, an Apple product.

SPEAKER_04: 26:31

Yeah, you know, I just saw a story, you know, their new iPad Pro is going to leverage LiDAR, you know, and use LIDAR. Okay. Which is crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 26:41

Well, the thing that I saw it we haven't done it yet, but like you can you can really take images from anything and then you send it up to get the uh you you know, they use different services which cost extra. Like if you were on scene from a drone or whatever, and they send them up to get the uh you know, Pixel 3D or some other names of them, I can't remember, but they'll get the the measurements from that and send it back and you can incorporate it into your your your your scan.

SPEAKER_04: 27:09

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:10

From from just about any image. Uh if you if it's a stitch together or images they that you send it up to that, and I can't remember some of the software.

SPEAKER_04: 27:18

Right.

unknown: 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:19

It's fairly expensive, but but you can do that.

SPEAKER_04: 27:21

Yeah, it's just so fascinating. I, you know, I was looking, that was one of the the challenges I saw early on, you know, decade ago and and earlier, of course. Based on my recent research and fascination, uh re-fascination with the technologies, revisiting the technologies as I do. It looks like the first uh criminal you know application that I can find for LIDAR or 3D laser scanning of of any type was like the very, very late 90s. I know I know Third Tech's device came out in like 2003 and their their scene vision stuff. And that was really, you know, that was before Faro was in the in the market out here, even Leica. I think Leica had a device, and even some cases in the very early 2000s I've come across. But looks like most agencies that are using it today, you know, have have adopted it within the last 10 years, right? Okay. And it seems to be, to me, just the last three years, so many advancements in the like technology. I've I think what you know what I know what spurred my recent fascination was a personal thing. As usual, you know, I I get into the technology like I uh did the uh Oculus Quest VR system. And was just fast. I don't know what that is. It's uh Facebook's bought Oculus, but Facebook's Oculus has three VR headsets.

SPEAKER_00: 28:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 28:55

And you know, traditional VR, high-end VR stuff, you know, used to require so much hardware, you know. So so I mean, like high-end computers, you know, graphics cards, all of that. And then you're wired, you know, outside registration systems. And you know, so it's really, really cool. It's kind of stationary fixed system, you know. Well, of course, as the technology evolved, uh, Oculus developed their sensors using cameras around the mask, and did away with having to need the outside registration points to define your area. So it's entirely wireless. Okay. Oh, it's so slick. Look it up. Yeah, it's just so slick from a consumer application type of uh thing. So I've been playing with that with the family and exploring like 360 cameras and all of this stuff, and you know, just trying to revisit, you know, of course, from the personal side, okay, well, what's being done today with these and you know, in law enforcement and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03: 30:06

Some of the the the main aspects we've seen is that we've actually been able to get it into I think three trials now where we give a you know a the DVD in there that has the scans, the the self-contained Faro, I think they call it Faro 3D or Faro the one that's the small version of it that you can put on a DVD with the scans. And it has the links with the evidence in it as we found it when we did the scans. And that has saved us going out to a location that they we really didn't want to go out to because it was right, it would have been a tough area to get all the jury in. Well, they were able to introduce, we were able to introduce the scan as an alternative, and we've done that we've been successful on a couple trials, and that that that item goes back there with the with the jury during their deliberations.

SPEAKER_04: 30:55

Yeah, I mean, and that's another thing that I think was a hurdle early on, despite the fact that the you know we had a w we had some producing these free viewers, of course. But a lot of people were, you know, well, how were we gonna consume this in you know in trial? And uh there's just so many ways to incorporate it. And I think even more ways to go back and you know use it not just at at at the initial crime scene processing, but after the fact, right?

SPEAKER_03: 31:26

Yeah, I'm I'm amazed that like I see examples of like mainly I've seen a lot of crash scenes where they'll go out to the you know the the the junkyard and scan the vehicles, go out and scan where the accident happened and then fit them all back and re-recreate it.

SPEAKER_04: 31:40

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 31:41

And never have been there that day, you know, when it happened.

SPEAKER_04: 31:44

Yeah. MT Brown. That was part of my chat with MT Brown about 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies and their use in law enforcement and criminal justice. What is your opinion? We want to hear it. I want to hear it. I mean, that so you know, if you have a second, go ahead and drop it. Three minutes or less. Give us a call. 541-314-4271. 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies. What do you see the challenges as? Where do you see things going, and how quickly should we expect that? So give us a buzz. 541-314-4271. One more real quick chat, and that was with Nicole. Nicole is a crime scene technician with 13 years of experience at a resort town out on the east coast. Let's check in with her. So, um, the the reason I wanted to pick your brain, um, I decided to this month, even though we're we're really only doing one episode a month with my podcast right now, I'm doing other things. And one of the things I had been dropping the ball on since this whole virus thing came along, uh, my schedule was really crazy early in the year, and January, February, early March, and then when, you know, by then, boom, the virus is everywhere, you know. And so I had just haven't done any of the uh what's your opinion segments for the last couple episodes. And I was like, oh, we just uh did I tell you we got we I bought a quest Oculus Quest VR system. Oh no, yeah. Just I figured, you know, uh now's the time to pull the trigger, and you know, we're at home, let's use it as a family thing and you know, explore and check it out type of deal. And we fell in love with it, you know, absolutely fell in love with it. So we got you know hooked on that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:45

And you know, that is that like the goggles on your face one?

SPEAKER_04: 33:49

Yeah, yeah. So the quest is yeah, yeah, the quest was Oculus's first real, you know, uh standalone VR. So it's not as powerful as the graphics you can use, you know, from PC-based uh VR systems, you know, through Steam and Oculus's platform for the Rift. But it also doesn't require any external hardware or anything. Everything's wireless, so it's just a headset and two controllers, and it's amazing. It uses these four cameras on the front of it to position you in the room, and the interface is just absolutely amazing to me. It's a little bit heavy on the face after a while, you know. So after about a half hour, that the quest starts to feel a little bit heavier. But we also have the Oculus Go, and those are the just single controller ones, which are really designed for just being sitting or laying down, you know, being stationary. Whereas the quest, you can actually we could mark out the whole garage as our zone and safe zone for when when we're in virtual reality, and just you know, literally move around in virtual reality spaces, and it's it's really crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 35:05

So nice it got me kind of reminds me of that uh book, uh Ready Player One.

SPEAKER_04: 35:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had uh you know, it it just got me back into 360 video, uh virtual reality, and then of course, years and years ago in a past life, my prior employer introduced me to uh 3D laser scanning about 10 years ago, actually, about 2010 or somewhere somewhere right in there. And we actually he the the company uh that I worked for at the time bought a scanner, I think, the following year. And you know, so we were doing 3D laser scanning at a crime scene pretty early on. And I was just so impressed with the technology then, you know, just didn't have the bandwidth to play with it personally because I was, you know, either working with it professionally or working with you know video evidence uh professionally, like around the clock. So but you know, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 36:02

Remember attending your presentation that you did for that conference for because you guys put on a presentation and my friend was like, Look, we gotta get to this one. I was like, All right, we're going. And uh yeah, it definitely impressed me.

SPEAKER_04: 36:17

Well, it was just so you know, that it's things like that where I was telling my wife just uh earlier today, I'm like, it's just it's just I don't know, because I I've been looking at 360 video cameras now, you know. So for this has been my fad for the last couple months. I picked uh okay, I'm gonna, you know, look into VR for the family as a pastime while we're in lockdown, we can explore it together. And now it's become three months uh two, you know, of of you know, rolling back in time and thinking about 3D laser scanning and looking up what what was going on today with that those technologies and how it's being used, which is pretty much the same. Not a lot of uh developments that I see, and that's why I wanted to you know reach out to to some of my peers and just you know, I know how long have you worked crime scene as a crime scene officer, tech?

SPEAKER_02: 37:10

Unofficially 13 years. It'll be officially 13 years in November. They don't actually count my seasonal time, so I like to count it, so therefore I count it as 13 years.

SPEAKER_04: 37:21

Yeah, right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 37:22

Otherwise, it's 13 years in November. Nice.

SPEAKER_04: 37:25

Wow. And now now does your agency have you been the all that entire time you were a crime scene technician?

SPEAKER_02: 37:35

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:36

Yeah. And and so when when did you guys or are you guys using any of that today? Uh 3D laser scanning, 360 video, or or anything like, you know, even those wide-scale panoramas of the uh crime scene, that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 37:55

We have a scanner, but it our pretty much only our traffic safety unit uses it. And I've to be honest, never I've seen them working it, but I've never seen the final outcome of their project.

SPEAKER_07: 38:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 38:08

And we did one time get a demo for a 360 camera from this company. I was definitely impressed. I mean, it was nice. I just feel like the camera was a limitation because the megapixels on it were really low.

SPEAKER_07: 38:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 38:22

And it really didn't do well in low light, which if you think about when honestly the majority of your crime occurs.

SPEAKER_04: 38:29

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 38:30

You know?

SPEAKER_04: 38:30

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 38:33

How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_02: 38:37

I want to say about a year ago.

SPEAKER_04: 38:39

Yeah. Yeah. I've been looking at this. Have you looked at any 360 cameras yourself?

SPEAKER_02: 38:45

Other than that one, no. That was that was the only one that we really we looked at, we checked it out. I mean, it was definitely impressive and useful, but it its limitations also were definitely impressive.

SPEAKER_04: 38:58

Right. It's like, you know, you think about the 3D laser scanning, how far it's come along. The Delta Sphere was, do you remember the company Third Tech? Third Tech uh released the Delta Sphere, and it was uh really the first of its type and kind for documenting crime scenes. And that was around 2003, that it was you know commercially available anyway. And and and it's just come so far that now look at iPad Pros building LiDAR, you know, systems into their into their iPads for you know being able to do some really advanced cool things. It's crazy to me how far it's come along. I think what I've seen is the challenge though, is like how do you you know, because when you see the output in a you know something that you're gonna build as a whether it's a demonstrative or as evidence, when you see the output, you know, you're the person. That's done the the collection, the scanning, stitching, you know, and and everything, you see the output, you're so impressed. But but I think the challenge from my opinion, my perspective, has been like having a common viewing experience that's so you know simple for the end user with 360 video, with those sorts of presentation technologies in the courtroom, you know. Some have you know standalone software so that that can be archived with the evidence so that it's always accessible and playable. So, you know, there is that, of course. But it's still, I don't know. I just haven't seen. Do you remember a Luma Room technology? Do you remember that from Microsoft? No. It was this really cool uh projection technology, it was kind of like a mixed reality type of thing where it used the uh sensor from the uh Xbox 360 scanner and a projector on your coffee table to you you'd be in a game and it would project the rest of the room, it would turn your entire real living room like into this virtual environment. It would appear like it was drawn a cartoon, it could become part of the game. Developers could, you know, develop out into that space. I mean, it could you could have like snow falling on the floor in front of you, you know, and stuff, you know, in your space. Yeah, it was but it's so cost prohibitive, you know, it required all of these components to do, and at a price point that just isn't gonna be widely adoptable, you know. So but that, geez, that was like, you know, another what 10 years ago, and I'm like, uh, it's it's gotta be close. It's gotta be close where we have a common platform to both create and consume, you know, these types of technologies that to just provide a a perspective, you know, you can't get any other way. Like, what could that officer see or this person see at this exact position, you know, at this exact time under these exact conditions? You know, hi you know, that's just amazing stuff to be able to show 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies. That is our topic for what's your opinion this month? I'll be releasing the full interviews with Nicole and MT and George for our patrons from our Patreon community later this week and probably next. And getting right to some nonsense. Up next, I'm going to be chatting with M3. Stay tuned. Do you breathe? Have you ever taken a shit before? If you answered yes to either of those questions, we've got a product for you. Introducing the Appmaster 400XL. The Appmaster 400XL is a comfy heated toilet seat with a built-in air purifier. No more rotten carcass smell, right after dad drops the morning dust in the bathroom right off the kitchen. I know what you're thinking. It sounds too good to be true. But the Assmaster 400XL has been tested thoroughly by some of the nastiest asses in the business. The Askmaster 400XL comes in your choice of three different colors and has over three dozen different frames for expressed aromas built right in. If you call within the next 20 minutes, we'll include the required power cord. And you get to keep the cardboard box we ship it to you in. Don't kid yourself. Your shit really does stink. Get an Askmaster 400XL today!

SPEAKER_08: 43:48

The Askmaster 400XL is not a real product, and this is not a real commercial, but your shit definitely does stink.

SPEAKER_04: 44:27

Ah, well, it's not a Martin, but sounded pretty good.

SPEAKER_06: 44:33

I think I'm gonna have to walk to Pennsylvania just to get that Martin.

SPEAKER_04: 44:37

I know, right? What the hell? One of these days it's gonna happen. I see it happening, you know? Sitting with that uh brand new Martin in your hands, just diddling all evening. All afterwards.

SPEAKER_05: 44:51

I've already decided to get two. I've already decided. Yeah. So keep on waiting, maybe three.

SPEAKER_04: 44:59

Now you're not losing any along the way. I mean, you still got the whole collection. Right? Oh, yes. Oh, jeepers, man.

SPEAKER_06: 45:07

I occasionally will give a guitar away, but I never sell any.

SPEAKER_04: 45:10

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's kind of funny, you know, when you find somebody that has a passion like yours for for music and and you see like them throughout the I mean, you've always had you've always had such an awesome collection, no matter what, you know, no matter the circumstances, you found a way to have the best shit. Yes. That's pretty awesome. That's pretty awesome. Hey man, you've been watching any of this The Last Dance with Michael Jordan's 97-98 year there on ESPN and stuff. You seen any of that?

SPEAKER_06: 45:47

Nah, I saw some articles about it, but I don't get that channel.

SPEAKER_04: 45:51

Oh, that's right. You're Netflix own Netflix and YouTube only these days. Correct. Yes, yeah. I've been I've been watching it, of course, a huge Jordan fan because I was a basketball, you know, fan. And I mean, uh what a fascinating thing to do. And and to know, you know, ahead of time that, hey, this is gonna be the last season. Let's make sure we get everything, you know, that we can documented and then release it 22 years later. But it is good, you know, it is good entertainment, it for sure. And yeah, all the articles I'm seeing in the news, like I'm looking at one right now on uh this one's on USA Today, tracing Michael Jordan's 10 biggest life feats over 20 plus years since the last dance era. And yeah, I mean it's just everywhere. Our interviews with teammates and all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's been everywhere. Certainly, you know, as Jordan always does, transcends, you know, just the sports channels. It's front page news.

SPEAKER_06: 46:57

Right. I would like to watch you and Jordan do a one-on-one. Just to watch the expression on his face when he realizes how good you actually are.

SPEAKER_04: 47:06

Oh, please, man. You that's another level. That's one of the things that people don't understand, man. The levels of talent are so like I would see somebody like yourself, right? Your level of talent in music is exceptional for you know, it's like uh BJ Penn in you know BJJ back in the early 2000s. It was like, holy crap, you know, this guy just started and was a prodigy, you know, his nickname was the prodigy because he, you know, was unbel an unbelievable sponge and just everything stuck in in a way that it was instinct with you know, like instantaneously. Yeah. It's fascinating to watch people like that. But it's such a you know, for to be somebody like that, like a Jordan, like nobody can really relate, you know, to those types of exceptional talents or exceptional lives, especially, you know, Ali. Nobody had that type. I mean, even you, you know, there's certainly a lot of, you know, there's Jack Johnson, there's certainly a lot of, but nobody at the level and the time when Jordan was doing it, right? So it was a new level. Dr. J, you know, back in the in the 70s, and and you know, then Jordan Boom in the 80s and 90s, and even throwing up a 51-point game in the 2000s, you know, with the Wizards. Yeah, it's so at such a different level, man.

SPEAKER_06: 48:38

Here's how naive I was into sports back in my young days in the 70s. When they were talking about Dr. J and his uh great basketball ability, my question was, wouldn't he make more money as a doctor? Pretty sure.

SPEAKER_04: 48:54

Right. He might have going to run a basketball. He might have back then. You know, they were paid peanuts, you know, in the 60s and before the 70s, you know, once the merger uh with the ABA, when that happened, I think you started to see, you know, salary uh increases, attendance started to increase because of a lot of the talent that was coming into the league from the ABA and and others. But man, this this behind-the-scenes stuff gives people you know, what I was reading about it before it came out, right, was all these stories about oh, people are gonna have a new insight on Jordan, they're gonna see, you know, how tough he was on his teammates and pushing them and being a jerk, you know, to them and taunting them and teasing them and blah blah blah. But the reality is you, you know, that level of dedication, few people ever even get to see it, let alone understand it. That guy lived, you know, basketball around the clock his entire life to a degree that nobody else did. And you, you know, you listen to some of the teammates, the people he's played with, the friends, the colleagues and stuff over the years. All of them, not a single one of them, uh has any doubt, you know, that this is the the big best ever, you know, in so many different ways. Just set new standards and so on and so forth. And me, I didn't I didn't take it that way. Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna be surprised by that. Because think about it, you have to be to stay on top. Once you win a champion, once you become king of the hill, you know, maybe maybe you play buck buck. I don't know. Well, maybe you remember buck buck. Buck buck number one. But you know, whatever. You become king of the hill. Once you're king of the hill, you spend the rest of your career defending yourself because people are trying to knock you off. And it's a different perspective, right? You it's a totally different where's your motivation now? You're already at the pinnacle. Where do you go from here, right? So he has to people like that have to keep finding these new challenges. Well, nobody's done it three times, so we'll do a three-peat, you know. Well, nobody's ever done two three-peats, you know, or no nobody's ever done four, the five championships, the s and and and then it gets into silly stuff, right? He has to find silly stuff to motivate himself. I was I was not surprised in the least when he walked away. Especially once once his father was murdered, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 51:40

That that that entire That was while we were still in the service.

SPEAKER_04: 51:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 51:45

I remember that.

SPEAKER_04: 51:46

Yep. And in North Carolina, too.

SPEAKER_06: 51:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He that's yep.

SPEAKER_04: 51:51

Yeah. We were there. Right. Oh, I think I have some cats trying to get into the studio. Literally, my cat's hitting the door handle on the outside of the door. I'm sorry. Those bastards. Uh but I don't know. I found I f I, you know, I find people that that are that successful at anything extremely fascinating. You know, to understand that level of dedication, even if it's things that I'm not interested in, right? But Ali has always been a big part of my life because I've been a big boxing fan since I was a little kid. And that that was influenced by my father, you know, watching boxing as well. But he didn't watch basketball. He wasn't a basketball fan, so I'm not really sure where that came from.

SPEAKER_06: 52:35

I just fell in love with basketball and uh followed it from Do you remember uh in the army, the guy named Lazada? Yeah, of course, yeah. Oh, boxer. He was awesome. You better believe it. He knocked out six guys in a row. They kept bringing them in, and he'd fight them when he was there at Champion Main. Yeah. He knocks sued out, and they bring in another dude, and he still fight him on the same day. He's bringing in fresh dudes and he's knocking them out left and right. That dude was tackling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 53:04

No, that dude was so talented. He had not just fundamentals, he had, you know, athletic skill on top of it and strength. Like he pinned me down when Tyler talking crap, you know. Yeah, he he pinned me down and and treated me like his bitch for a second, basically.

SPEAKER_06: 53:23

You like to get in that kind of screen. You know, he comes from Cleveland, man. And you know, he's got that big old scar on his face that his dad threw acid on him. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he comes from that shit.

SPEAKER_04: 53:35

I totally forgot that story. Hey, yeah, uh, do you remember? Uh, do you do you watch any MMA? You ever seen uh Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz? I think it was Tito or was it VTOR?

SPEAKER_06: 53:44

I know who those guys were. I think it's been a long time.

SPEAKER_04: 53:46

Where he had him down on the ground and he's just like spanking his ass.

SPEAKER_05: 53:50

That's what Lazada did to me, man. That's how humiliated I was by that guy.

SPEAKER_04: 53:56

That dude was so talented. Yeah. I don't know what got what got him thrown off the uh team. I think he was uh booted off the team for something.

SPEAKER_06: 54:04

Oh yeah, well he's he's a gang, he's a gangster, man.

SPEAKER_04: 54:08

Yeah. Was he from I mean a real gangster? I think he was from was he from Cabrina Green? Cleveland. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 54:15

Cleveland, Ohio.

SPEAKER_04: 54:16

Yeah, yeah. Man, yeah, definitely a very you know, another very talented boxer that was on the army team, Top London.

SPEAKER_05: 54:24

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 54:25

Top London was a a boxer and on the army team for for quite some time. I would have liked to seen him mix it up a little.

SPEAKER_06: 54:33

Uh little Joe Frazier big old cigar hanging out of his mouth.

SPEAKER_04: 54:37

Yes, exactly. A little Joe Fraser action, yes. I mean that short, stocky boom boom, I'm gonna just lay into you, you know. Yeah. Left hooks to the roof.

SPEAKER_06: 54:50

He tried to recruit me one time for some tomfoolery. Tom Foolery. For payday activities. You know how each company some days we get the guide on banner or whatever thing we would get for being exceptional? Well, I think Bravo Company had won or something, and he wanted me to be to put a he wanted to put an outhouse on the field, and when they got the streamer, he was gonna call us to attention and say, Hey Bravo. Whereas we're gonna pull the door open and my naked butt would be facing them.

SPEAKER_04: 55:21

Ah, right. Right.

SPEAKER_06: 55:23

I was like, really? This is his idea. We didn't do it, obviously. I was like, really?

SPEAKER_04: 55:30

He was a good he was so fun uh to work for, man. He was both I you know, I can't think of we didn't really have any bad leaders at that level, you know. Our first sergeants, even our company commanders. We uh we were really uh very fortunate in that regard.

SPEAKER_06: 55:47

Uh yeah, we had Captain Gregory, Captain Sweeney, and Captain Dodd.

SPEAKER_04: 55:51

And you know, Jordan, cigar smoker as well. So there's something there's something about that. I don't know. Those things stink, you know it. I just came in from having one. I had to get out of the house. I just, I don't know, man. I didn't have the motivation this morning. I'm like, I got all these recordings I gotta get edited and put together, and looking at the news and stuff, you know, I'm like, I just don't even want to talk about this stuff. Politics. I don't want to talk about it. I don't even want to think about it, you know, because my my my only control is voting, really. So I have to uh be sure to try and express it there, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 56:31

Yes, one loud moment.

SPEAKER_04: 56:34

It's it's funny because you know, I I'm out working in the yard the other night and a friend's mom, you know, drives by, uh stops to to pick him up. He's here hanging out. And and you know, I'm saying I say, hey, how you doing? How's it going? And and and long story short, I find out, you know, she's um you know, a likely Trump supporter and and everything, and you know, I'm just like trying to stop the conversation and be polite, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 57:00

Like, no, no, it's hard to how do you how do you pivot here?

SPEAKER_04: 57:03

We gotta pivot somehow.

SPEAKER_06: 57:05

Yeah. I just go ahead and state my case. Like my sister's uh new fiance, when he kind of broached the subject with me. Yeah, I had to tell us like, oh man, damn it, damn it. I know it's we were doing so good. I know I know.

SPEAKER_04: 57:23

It's like uh we were Stacy and I just watched this episode of Seinfeld last night, in fact, where Elaine, you know, remember when she was asking all uh everybody about pro-choice, whether or not they were pro-choice, and then well yeah, I remember every episode, and she's got this new hunk of a young boyfriend that's you know, uh she's really hot on, and then Jerry's like, but how does he feel?

SPEAKER_05: 57:49

And she's like, No, Jerry, no.

SPEAKER_06: 57:53

No, that was before putty. It was before putty, yeah. Yeah. Uh she got under putty because he was religious and she took his Jesus fish off of his sob. He was fixed. You stole my Jesus fish, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04: 58:06

Those characters were hilarious, man. Speaking of speaking of exceptionalism and I guess I guess politics uh and and news stuff, Warren Buffett, that that is something that I saw recently that I did want to mention was an article in Yahoo Finance, uh, where he has two ideas for ending inequality in the country. And essentially the biggest being uh earned income tax credit. Which, you know, if you know Warren Buffett, uh anything about Warren Buffett, you know, I like to listen to him and hear what he has to say.

SPEAKER_06: 58:41

If I was an investor, see, I follow him just in case I ever get money, I'll know how to invest.

unknown: 58:46

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_06: 58:48

I just read yesterday the things that he recommend we invest in right now. And I'm thinking, hmm, interesting. Maybe I will.

SPEAKER_04: 58:54

I just love listening to the guy. The guy is so down to earth. I know, you know, it's it's really fascinating to me to hear him, you know, some of his opinions. You know, if you like here, here's a quote from this article on Yahoo Finance. On Yahoo Finance, the article is from uh April 27th. Warren Buffett has two ideas for ending inequality. So where was the one? There was a couple quotes I wanted to read, but if you're in the top one-tenth of one percent in basketball ability or football ability or baseball ability, you aren't worth anything, Buffett says by way of example. If you're in the top one hundredth of one percent, well, now you're worth millions. Sports is an easy example because we all like to watch them. We don't want to watch a bunch of guys like you and me play basketball, so that's where the money is. But that didn't exist 200 years ago. And so you get this pushing of extreme rewards to people who are very, very good at something that the market demands. And people demand entertainment. They demand people apparently that. Arbitrage securities. There's certain specialties. It isn't a diabolical plot. It's because of the market system. But we want a market system to keep functioning that way without but but we don't want people left behind in a society where you've got 60,000 plus of GDP per capita. Pretty pretty fast. Because, you know, he's talking about comparing the and earned doing it through an earned income tax credit as opposed to increasing minimum wage because earned in income tax is actually going to put it in your pocket, you know, just as fast as you have more income. And it's a better way for the system to control it than through, you know, what about those that aren't working, that are, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a lot of always a lot of interesting things that he has to say. I just love the fact that, you know, so many at that level of success, including Michael Jordan, right? Have, you know, committed to giving so much of their wealth away, you know, in their lifetime. Like all of 90% or more of it, you know, for many of them.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:12

Yeah, it's funny how that kind of behavior ignites conspiracy theories amongst the religious people. My brother at their church, I they got something going against Bill Gates. I have no idea what in the hell. And he wants to implant some kind of device into poor people. And he's the Antichrist. Yes. Because there's somewhere in the Bible they get they say that you gotta have a stamp in your hand or your head when in the end times, or you can't buy or sell stuff, which is you know, it's total bullshit. But when the barcode came out, I remember that. Oh god, because I was still in church then. Does it have to be one of those forever stamps?

unknown: 1:01:53

The barcode.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:54

That's the antichrist. The devil's on his way, buddy. Computers. Yep, all that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:04

Matrix printers.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:05

It's sad, you know, because I've had to watch it firsthand and my parents at their their education level and their knowledge level is is at such a low. As they got older, it got worse. Well, they didn't learn more as they got older, they got dumber as they got older. Well, a lot of people were all that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:22

A lot of people, uh I mean, it's I don't mean this as a dig. It's just that uh that happens a lot of times at a certain point. You know, you you I I think, just from my perspective, you know, uh it happens once you isolate yourself to the point that you're only dealing with one source of news coming in, right? You're only dealing with one or two sources of news, and that's because they agree with what you already believe.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:49

That's it. They only get that one news channel.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:53

That's right. You know, if they don't agree with what you well, change you're changing until you know, and then that's your new news source. But yeah, I I think that's kind of pretty pretty common. It's not that they're it's just that they choose not to spend cycles on things that they've spent cycles on for years, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:13

Yeah, all they're doing is waiting for Jesus. Yeah, nothing else matters.

unknown: 1:03:17

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:18

That was the ambition we grew up with, too. None of us were like, you know, they didn't like you should get an education, you should do this. Nah, just have a job, just get a job. My brother, like my second oldest brother, he has got well, he's a theologist now, but man, he went to school when he got out of high school and college and stayed there for like 20 years.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:37

Right.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:38

He has got so many degrees, and he is a professor of so much stuff. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it when he comes around too because the conversation is great, and usually me and him just pair up and hang out the whole time. Plus, he's he's just about equal with me on guitar playing and stringed instruments.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:54

Wow, that is.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:55

Oh, it's a toy when he comes around, and he hardly ever comes around. He lives in Iowa.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:02

Yeah, well, you know, I'm not gonna say anything about Iowa.

SPEAKER_06: 1:04:06

Uh I know, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:09

But speaking of technology, though, i the other thing in the news I was gonna mention uh that's also virus related is this debate that's going on about the uh coronavirus apps, right? And which method to go with. Have you seen any of those? No. So so like there's been all these countries are still arguing about, you know, are they gonna go with essentially two different models, a centralized model or a decentralized model. Now, that that centralized model means all the data goes up to a centralized essentially location and is managed in AI, you know, driven uh analytics, et cetera, are done in this centralized location and you're notified. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Decentralized means all of that is done on your device, on your phone. That there all you know, it's it's anonymous data either way, but where it's processed does play a role in privacy and so on and so forth. And so that's been the big thing the last several weeks uh in the technology space. What who's gonna have the right model in all these countries arguing about which model to go with? So anyway.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05:23

Well, in normal circumstances, the United States would be leading the conversation and the world.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:28

You would think, you know, so so rather than the the the US government, however, US companies, Apple and Google are kind of uh driving this ship, because they have agreed that the decentralized approach is the better way to go. That's the way they're going, that's the API that they're gonna release for countries to sign up for and sign on to, which is interesting to me. That's really interesting to me that Apple and Google chose the decentralized model, whereas, you know, others are still looking at decentralized. I think everybody's gonna get on board because it wasn't long ago where you know Apple and Google would have been, hey, let us let us have the data. Let you know, let us let us put the data into our cloud and so on and so forth. And and you know, things are are changing. I think there's a bit of a change happening here, as with many things that uh this whole coronavirus is just kind of expediting. Like I said, I think a lot of great things are gonna come out of this situation, you know. A lot of great things. I think people's eyes are gonna be more open, we're gonna uh people are gonna see the you know value of of things more, understand supply and demand, you know, be appreciative. Hopefully, you know, I'm trying to stay optimistic about some of those things, but I think there's gonna be a lot of awakening that this does to society, and hopefully all uh mostly positive. That's that's the way I've been trying to approach it. So it's nice to see Apple and Google, you know, champion privacy for us. I think they've got enough dollars for now. They could they can you know they've got enough dollars and data, being that data, you know, rules the roost these days in more ways uh than one. Yep. That's unreal. Crazy. What else have you been up to, man? Anything exciting?

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:31

Taking care of the elderly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:33

Yeah.

unknown: 1:07:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:33

Speaking of which, Mother's Day. Yeah, what'd you did? Was she with a broken arm then, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:40

Was she? Damn, it's hard to remember, man. The girl has so many incidences, it's hard to keep track of which one. Yeah, I think it was.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:49

Yes, yeah, I thought it was.

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:51

No, no, it wasn't yet. She did it the next day, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:53

Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:55

I thought it was.

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:56

They're gonna move her over to the hospital here in town.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:00

And she's gonna be there for a few days. See, my sister's with her because my sister, once you're in the hospital, she can't leave. She has to stay there the whole time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:08

Oh, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:13

She's in it too, just like my mom says.

unknown: 1:08:17

Right.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:17

But yeah, they're gonna move her over here to to Priantucky. Put her in the hospital for a few more days. My dad, see, they got he's got live-in caregivers now.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:26

Right. Oh, well, that's gotta help, you know. That that's it's definitely gotta help. I'll tell you, it it's nerve-wracking being 3,000 miles away from your mom who lives by herself, you know. You know, it's it's crazy. I can I can certainly feel for your situation though, being the the closest one and there, you know, taking care of them and everything all the time. So I know those those challenges.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:58

Well, if if I was a little younger, it'd probably be okay, but right, right. I'm kind of older myself too, and have issues that makes it hard to even deal with my life. I want to go over there and take care of these guys, not just me alone. My brother and my sister are doing it too.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:12

Right, yeah, no, the whole family. No, I know. It's just that, yeah, you're that you're right there, you know. So yeah, I was just telling Stacy the other day, I really think I, you know, we should get somebody to take care of me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:26

Me first. I'm constantly begging for that. I've looked, I always look for things, you know, find services or something I could sign up for. And hey, look, I'm somebody defeat me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:38

I'm okay, you know, if they can maybe they can do you know, several things. Cook, maybe they're masseuse, maybe I don't know. Gardening, there's so there's lots of opportunities, I think. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:52

Yes, I agree. I would love to have my own caregiver.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:56

Oh my gosh. Jeepers, just in a personal assistant would be awesome. Like, literally. Just oh, just to have a personal assistant say, Didn't you got this, you know, screen a few things for me once in a while, you know, that sort of thing, that would be amazing. I've always wanted a personal assistant.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:15

Oh, have somebody drive me places on the phone.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:19

Yes. I want to be Joe Walsh, man.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:21

You know, just like I remember the last time I've been driven, sir, that I didn't drive. I'm always driving.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:26

I know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:27

And it's myself or other people, it's always my car and me at the passenger seat.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:32

Speaking of which, I just got back right before I called you. I just got back from running my typical, you know, uh errand up to the mailbox, post office box, and just to get out of the house because I just wasn't, you know, I'm like, I gotta get some fresh air or something, get back out and work in the yard or something. Anyways, I drive up there, and of course, it's a two-mile drive, man. The whole time I'm behind this guy who is oblivious to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, doing 15 miles an hour below the speed limit, no turn signals, you know, just all over the lane. You know, it's an older gentleman who, you know, believes, hey, I got the right.

unknown: 1:11:18

You know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:19

Yeah, exactly. Who cares about anybody else?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:22

That's that's what pisses me off, man. I get so and it I I thought I was doing so well, but I'm like, no, you're doing good. You're doing thinking to myself, you know, you're doing good, you're not getting upset. And I really didn't, but it ate at me the whole time I thought about it, you know, the entire time. I'm like, why wouldn't this guy give a shit about everybody else around him? Why doesn't this guy pull over and let people go around him if he wants to do 20 miles an hour below the speed limit or you know, drive like granny when there's no like recourse to you know people that just do what you know, oh I I can do this. I have the right to drive 30 miles an hour in a 45 mile. Yes, you do. You you're absolutely right. You do have it does make you more than likely a jackass for not paying, you know, giving a shit about anybody else around you. And at some point, when you're going uh, you know, 40 on a on a highway, that's dangerous. Okay. So um the people just take things to the damn extreme. It's my right. It's my right. Well, yes, but what about being, you know, part of a society? No way. What about giving shit about the people outside of yourself, you self-centered little uh so driving, not good for me. That's why that's why when we were talking, what was it the other day you and I were chatting? I said, no, I couldn't have been a truck driver or you know what I mean? Oh no, I was chatting with Stacy. I was chatting with Stacy about it. I was like, you know, we were watching King of Queens, and I said, No, I couldn't have done it. I I would have always I always used to say I would love a job where I can just be done, you know, at 5 p.m. and boom, shut it off. I I've never my whole life never lived that. You know, I've never had that situation. And so I that was something I always thought would be, yeah, you gotta, once you get that, no, I'll never, I'll never have it. I won't because it's not the way I work, you know?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:36

That's why I'm always jealous of my brother and my youngest brother. He don't give a shit about anything whatsoever. And I want to be that, but at the same time, I just want to kick the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:49

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:50

Congratulations on your goal to be as little as possible for as long as you can. Yes. And that's exactly where he's at, man.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:59

I know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:00

His wife has to run everything. Oh, that's mad. You don't even know what his bills are. Yeah, what's your paying for cell phones? Like, I don't know. Like, what how come? Francis does that. You don't even know what what your you're you don't care about shit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:15

Listen, I'm not gonna lie to you. I wouldn't mind being a kept man at this point.

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:21

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:25

Right. Wow. Well, I don't know that I could uh do that. No, I don't know. You know. Well, I guess under some situations I could. I don't know. I tell you, I have got to get my butt in gear though. I've got a lot of editing to do today to throw something together and get it out on the street, and we need to get together and do some music. I I've got this new camera coming too that I'm pretty psyched about. Did I tell you about that?

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:55

No. Last I talked about was your virtual reality. Ah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:59

Well, yes, so I dropped a little bit more change for a new camera. I haven't bought a camera in many years, actually. I've been fortunate to have use of good equipment, but in any case, I bought this uh uh action cam. It's a 4K, a wide angle, 60 FPS. It's also a 360 cam, so I can do uh VR like you know experiences in 360, and they're coming out with a 3D mount for it, so I'll also be able to do 3D uh stereoscopic stuff with it, which I just I can't wait to play with, quite honestly. But in any case, one of the things I thought was, oh man, it would be so cool for Mark to take this when he's out doing artifact hunting and stuff. Remember remember how you were talking about doing uh new thing I'm gonna do when I when the season starts back up.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:54

Yeah. I'm gonna start recording my finds.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:57

I'm telling you, I want to do I want to come down and do it with a 360 video uh camera with you and then show you that in VR, you know, in a VR experience. You'll you'll you'll trip out over it. It's gonna be fun. But I I see so many, I mean, I I knew we're gonna need a decent camera for if I'm gonna do anything with this Roku channel stuff, and I'm not even sure. I I you know I really don't want to be on video myself, so never have. So I'm not I'm not sure. I don't know that I would ever, you know, Stacy's like, well, are you gonna like you know video you doing the podcast? Actually, like you and Mark sitting, you know, behind your mics and like Rogan and and them. I'm like, I I don't know that I like Mark Morone.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:43

I'll say Rogan.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:44

Yeah, okay. But but I don't know if I ever want to do that. I don't, you know, first off, I don't think I want to do that. That's what I like about radio and podcasting and audio production. But yeah, I don't know. It can hurt to have all of these capabilities in a camera, and I will find a way to make it for pay for itself within the first year. As I do.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:08

You know, I was thinking that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:10

I was thinking that. That's exactly what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:14

They can just pay for the shit, assholes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:19

Oh, don't get me started on that guy, man. I'm telling you, I've tried so, so hard to lay off from that guy and not uh oh geez. Yes, that. Yes, that. I'm telling you. It's it's hard. It's very, very hard because I understand. It's like, you know, trying to understand crazy, and when you can understand some of the crazy, and you're like, I understand how this person feels, you know, how they got there, but come on. What about all the facts? What about thing of the past? What about reality and not conspiracy? You know, uh what about that? What about uh facts and evidence? Uh what about that? Yeah, but in any case, yeah, I've been doing good with it. It's not had me uh stressed out and I've been able to stay away from it, which is you know, which I think is the better route to take right now.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:23

Well the fact that there's another candidate approaching kind of, you know. I don't know. It's it's scary though to get all hope built up in that shit, but jeepers.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:33

I don't even you know, you know, if it were why why hasn't Michelle Obama just said I'm uh for this is it. If she would just raise her hand, I bet I bet the whole thing would be over. We wouldn't even vote. Alright, man. I'm out. I'll catch up with you soon.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:53

Later, buddy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:54

All right, later. Earlier today in Washington, D.C., another career politician said something really, really stupid. Officials are concerned that ignorance and stupidity has blatantly crossed party lines and unfortunately has made its way to those appointed by elected officials as well. We spoke with a high-profile former politician who recently left office and asked to remain anonymous.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:18

I don't know what happened. I remember when I announced my campaign for this position, but after that it's all a blur. I began babbling like an idiot, making promises I couldn't keep, attacking my political opposition, and generally always feeling like I was foolish. Just literally, my doctor said it's a chronic case of political constipation. I knew I should have stepped down right then and there, but they said they'd stop paying me if I did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:40

Do not be alarmed if you recognize these symptoms in your elected or appointed officials. There is hope, according to health experts. Many of these babbling idiots are turning normal as soon as their sorry ass is voted or kicked out of office. You don't say.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:55

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:58

That is gonna wrap it up for. For this month's episode of Nerds and Nonsense, our what's your opinion topic has been 3D laser scanning and immersive video technologies in the criminal justice system. But I'm also interested in consumer applications and development, of course. Things like HoloLens 2 and where you see those sorts of things, magic leaps, demise. Any interest and or comments you may have on the topic, you can share them in three minutes or less by dropping a voicemail at 541-314-4271. Again, that's 541-314-4271. We hope to hear from you. We'll share that possibly in next month's episode. Look for more nonsense at our Patreon community. That's where I share all of my personal social media posts these days, no longer on Twitter or Facebook. I want to thank all of my guests from this episode. Also let the patrons know, let our patrons know that those full interviews will be released this week and next as uh time permits. I'll get those full interviews out to you via your own private RSS feed. If you're not familiar with our Patreon community, check out the support the show link in your favorite podcast player. Copyright 2020, nerds and nonsense with Larry content. All rights reserved. Well, except that I don't really mind if you share this, so maybe feel free to do that. You know, share and share alike, that sort of thing. Speaking of copyrights, though, special thanks to Joe Daniels, copyright owner, co-writer, and original drummer from LocalH for permission to use Bound for the Floor by LocalH as our show's theme song. Check out our Patreon community at patreon.com forward slash nerds and nonsense for more information on getting involved or supporting the show. If you're listening via nerdsandnonsense.com, simply click on the support the show link to learn more. Be great and do great things, my friends.